tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post3631465948221480173..comments2024-03-21T23:18:45.644+00:00Comments on Priest with a Cause - A World of Warcraft (Classic) blog: Why I think that main specs should still go before off specsShintarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-36728860833773272852010-02-04T16:01:15.801+00:002010-02-04T16:01:15.801+00:00Imho the problem is education. Most of my chars ar...Imho the problem is education. Most of my chars are dual-spec and usually I sign up with their 2 specs and let the Finder give me a role. If something I can use for my secondary spec drops I first check if anyone is clicking Need on it. If no one does, I then ask if it's ok if I take it for offspec. So far I've never had any problem with that and people agreed. If I'd go and click Need without checking before if some main spec also needs it I'd be very rude and either a) I'd get voteckiked or at least b) people wouldn't feel comfortably playing with me (and if I wasn't in a power position like tank or heal any mistake I'd made would mean nobody would feel inclined to save my pixelized ass).<br />Same happens when someone ask to click N for offspec. If no mainspek needs the item it's the more fair (or more just in this case) thing you (and the rest) can do.<br />So what I'd do if after asking somebody says "no! only roll for current spec"? Well, it depends on the situation. If the item is claimed by somebody and that one is not main spec, I'd roll Need too. Someone else is breaking a non-written rule and I was polite enough to ask first, so why should somebody else get it by breaking a rule? let Lady RNG decide (and the bitch usually hates me, believe me!). If all roll G/D then I'd roll G too. At least I'd have a chance to get the item, even I'd be cursing who said no for being such morons.<br />I'm not sure restricting the rolls to available specs or current specs being played would be a good solution. May seem better (more fair and just) for everybody, but some items are too "vague" to be classified as good for certain spec, like caster weapons who lack both hit and mp5/spi so they can be used by mages, affliction warlocks, holy paladins, balance druids, destruction warlocks, restorarion druids, etc Of course you could tag that weapon as ok for all these classes but then again dual-specced and hybrids chars would have more roll chances than pure classes and monospecs. That wouldn't be that fair. Ok, they invested 1000 gold and some more into training another skill tree, but they're not using it right now.<br />So again I think the current system is quite good as long as you state before the roll if you can roll for offspec and everybody agrees on the loot sharing. Blizzard already states this in the loading screen tips: a little kindness goes a long way.Kurnakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474173104387646680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-31247842087699846152010-02-04T15:44:40.955+00:002010-02-04T15:44:40.955+00:00I would loves ta see a new option added in between...I would loves ta see a new option added in between "need" and "greed/DE". I often pugs as dps, 'cause I likes fer ta relax fer 15 minutes in-between runs. Now, if tank gear I don't want ta roll against the bugger what girded his loins and tanked the glunkerduppers, but I should definitely gets it rather than some bugger what's gonna sell / shard it. So I waits and scrolls the chat window and tries ta find what the tank did. Is a hassle, and bein' the good guy shouldn't be. Ah well.<br /><br />Course, full disclosure says I should mention I got the Black heart in me first ToC run. Which do make it easier fer ta play the good guy.Ratshaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12111084510465688124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-1318691133637605672010-02-04T15:35:10.019+00:002010-02-04T15:35:10.019+00:00If I can't be arsed to heal and queue as DPS, ...If I can't be arsed to heal and queue as DPS, then I will not roll need on that awesome healing trinket that drops. I would love to have it, but will only take it if the healer in the group doesn't want it.<br /><br />It is really unfortunate that there isn't an off-spec need option. At the moment I can either roll need against the healer, which to me is completely wrong. Or I roll greed/de against the prot warrior, rogue and mage who can't use the thing at all.<br /><br />The solution in my mind is simple communication, which seems easy but in today's speed runs you can rarely get "Hello" typed before the tank is pulling, much less a statement about loot. <br /><br />If I wanted to roll on off-spec gear, I would try to state upfront that I have an off-spec and that I would very much like to get gear for it. Saying that I will need on such items, but if there is anyone in the group that needs them for current spec I will trade the item if I win it. So kind of in lieu of having a "Need for Offspec"-button.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-63194977073807876972010-02-04T15:10:25.018+00:002010-02-04T15:10:25.018+00:00I'm kind of not getting into this one as its t...I'm kind of not getting into this one as its the way to start blog wars (as I learned to my cost the last time I posted about loot distribution).<br /><br />I think part of the difficulties is that we do tend to conflate fairness and justice... Spinks is right, RNG is completely *fair*; what it isn't is *just*.Tamhttp://www.righteousorbs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-85608876670971906992010-02-04T14:41:34.774+00:002010-02-04T14:41:34.774+00:00At least on sane person left. :-)
There are a lot...At least on sane person left. :-)<br /><br />There are a lot of problems with needing loot for the spec your not playing.<br /><br />The major problem is that it forces everybody to be an ass. Because if you respect the rule and the others don't, it's just your disadvantage.<br /><br />Which means, to make things equal, you have to roll on off-spec loot. Which is bad as it makes me feel bad. I don't want to take something from the tank. But if I don't do it I risk that the tank takes dps loot while I passed on tank loot.<br /><br />This is very bad for the game as you start to care less and less about others. Blizzard should immediately change the loot rules to only allow you to roll on the role you fulfill. That would be more useful than the armor type restriction.<br /><br />If it evolves in this way, being nice means you loose. Being greedy means you will have loot but you might not feel good about it.<br /><br />The second is that you don't need loot for a spec you don't play. If you don't tank, you don't need tank loot. If you always queue as tank because the queue is shorter, you don't need dps gear. A lot of people collect tank gear but never tank. That gear is lost. The tank would get much more use and enjoyment out of it. The same is true the other way around. You don't need a special gear to farm.<br /><br />And the argument that you help the group when you heal because without you the run wouldn't even happen is bullshit. Because the other 4 were on the front of the queue and would have gotten the next healer if you didn't sign up. Therefore, all you did is shortened their wait time by about 10 seconds. That hardly justifies for taking loot because you are selfless healing/tanking the instance.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-77897247475714966122010-02-04T14:28:09.878+00:002010-02-04T14:28:09.878+00:00@Spinks: Well, you're right that there'll ...@Spinks: Well, you're right that there'll always be another patch, another expansion and so on, but with that reasoning you might as well stop working on your character altogether because none of it matters in the long run. I do think people are allowed to care about what happens in the short term too.<br /><br />And a big raid might feel different, but at the end of the day a random guy who joins a big raid didn't spend any more time and effort on it than someone who ran heroic FoS fifteen times for a drop - why should the latter's investment not matter then?<br /><br />The point is, I agree that it's no use to get upset about loot not dropping, or losing a fair roll - but multi-spec rolls are unfair, and when people don't care about playing fairly with others it takes a lot of fun out of the game.<br /><br />@Uzi: You say that dual specs matter in raids, not in pugs, but then say that it makes sense for raids to have main spec rules but not for pugs?<br /><br />And when you talk about a "grumpy" main spec guy vs. a "multi-role maestro", all you're saying is that you think the latter is a better player and thus deserves more loot anyway, which just raises the question of how to distribute loot based on skill, which is a whole other can of worms.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-11527498762793786822010-02-04T14:08:24.533+00:002010-02-04T14:08:24.533+00:00The days of main spec are as dead as the day of th...The days of main spec are as dead as the day of the 'Main Tank'.<br /><br />We have tanking teams now and thanks to Raid Bosses needing different numbers of DamageSoakingManasponges (can ya tell my 'main' is a healer?) those tanks are going to be in a different spec in some fights. Might as well have them in decent gear!<br /><br />Likewise who's more utility to the 'PuGing Comunity'? The grumpy 'Main Spec' class or the Multi-role maestro who signs for whats needed 20 times a day? I know plenty of folk who game a lot who can out perform the average PuGer in either of their specs. Tank, Healer, DPS...whatever. Heck my healy shammy is normally top of the DPS charts in PuGs unless I happen to get a main spec raider along and then I'll give 'em a run. <br /><br />I can see why raids use systems to maximise the raid's effectiveness and prioritise distribution. But in PuGS?<br /><br />Main Spec is Dead. Long live Duel Spec.<br /><br />UziAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-82910517009382999122010-02-04T14:03:36.540+00:002010-02-04T14:03:36.540+00:00When I tank in randoms I am helping everybody get ...When I tank in randoms I am helping everybody get into instances quicker as there is a shortage of tanks. Any DPS or healer that wishes to roll on tanking gear for an OS can queue as tank and get an instant queue for the instance.<br /><br />If they choose not to, I can choose to leave normal HoR if I see any other shield-using class that also has the capability to tank.<br /><br />I can't be bothered having the gear I specifically queue the instance for as the spec I need the gear for taken by another player who couldn't be arsed to take advantage of the instant queue.Dominushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12268376877704269499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-67327329146134314082010-02-04T13:44:57.283+00:002010-02-04T13:44:57.283+00:00"Finally I just have to say that I hate the a..."Finally I just have to say that I hate the argument that people shouldn't get upset about losing loot rolls because "it'll drop again"."<br /><br />But it's true. And honestly, in a MMO (if it's decently designed), there is always a backup option. And if you get really unlucky and spend long enough without getting the item, eventually a new patch will bring new options also.<br /><br />People really should not get upset about losing loot rolls.<br /><br />And I think that with the one item per person restriction, I was still feeling my way. But even so, a raid that requires 100 people and a lot of organisation is so different from a random 5 man PUG which requires you to wait 10 mins in a queue and can be repeated daily.<br /><br />I just think you need to let go of the idea that it really matters whether you control loot distribution in a 5 man. Who cares? Let the loot go to someone who will use it and then move on. I also think that forcing people to pick a main spec before they run an instance is unnecessarily complicated -- if people need lots of items (like new 80s) then do they really look like greedy buggers when they roll for them?<br /><br />If you want to argue that you're so scared of upsetting the tank or healer that you won't roll against them, then you don't have to. Everyone gets to choose what role they queue as. But I do think everyone also needs to get used to the idea that people will gear up their dual specs in random instances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com