tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post8138421133259184941..comments2024-03-21T23:18:45.644+00:00Comments on Priest with a Cause - A World of Warcraft (Classic) blog: Over before it even beganShintarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-46718198656218808882011-01-10T09:47:25.217+00:002011-01-10T09:47:25.217+00:00In vanilla you waited longer than an hour for a gr...In vanilla you waited longer than an hour for a group. But the shortage were healers, not tanks, at lease on my server. We just were more patient. And it didn't matter that much as it took you 15 min to travel to the instance afterward and then you had to wait 15 min more for some idiot to start travel too (there were no port stones) and then the instance itself took quite some time. :-)<br /><br />At least, and that's my problem with heroics today, you were guaranteed to succeed with a PuG.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-33985427323044748382011-01-10T09:40:11.461+00:002011-01-10T09:40:11.461+00:00@shintar :) aha, I'm on a terribad connection ...@shintar :) aha, I'm on a terribad connection so not clicking through on hyperlinks atm (tooooo long to load anything! and wow is barely playable), so sorry for missing your link on tanks being OP. Sometimes I wonder how LFD would have been in Vanilla when you only really had warrior tanks and a few VERY stubborn ferals with Warden (I was one of those although I was only allowed and able to tank up to scholo and strat etc, raids were off the agenda as we had a full set of v capable warr tanks). Queues of an hour perhaps?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-81020092887072143962011-01-09T02:30:34.191+00:002011-01-09T02:30:34.191+00:00One of my tanks in TBC was a paladin and he had th...One of my tanks in TBC was a paladin and he had the aggro generating capabilities and the survivability. Actually, survivability back then was way better for a block tank in heroics as you were invulnerable to trash.<br /><br />But still I appreciated CC in some heroics like Mana-Tombs, Sethekk, Magisters' Terrace because not even a paladin could tank random aggro nor fear. :)Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-16235362269839757482011-01-09T02:22:36.639+00:002011-01-09T02:22:36.639+00:00@Boxer: I talked about the "tanks being too p...@Boxer: I talked about the "tanks being too powerful" problem in the old post I linked at the beginning of this entry. We used to need CC because the tanks had neither the aggro generating capabilities nor the survivability to tank more than three mobs or so at a time. I just don't think there's any going back to that kind of play.<br /><br />I agree though that the bosses are pretty good. Deadmines is the only heroic I haven't done yet so I can't comment, but there are several where the bosses have considerably more and harder mechanics that you need to pay attention to than anything had in WOTLK.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-41266874167389072052011-01-08T22:21:17.820+00:002011-01-08T22:21:17.820+00:00For my money, there are two particular issues here...For my money, there are two particular issues here. One is that gear is exponential now. When I did my first successful heroic on 16 Dec I think I had iLvl 330. Now I am well into the 350s with all the rep epics, crafted epics, and an epic PvP weap. I have 20% more health and a big chunk more dodge and armor. I'm a monster of a tank compared to the tank of 3 weeks ago. I've gained over 2 tiers of effectiveness.<br /><br />The second issue for me is that tanks are simply too good. I vividly remember tanking HC SH in TBC as a bear. The truth is, Swipe had a frontal cone, I had no way of creating aggro on 5 mobs save AoE tab lacerating, and bear dps then sucked anyway. And if things went wrong, I had nothing I could do. TODAY, I have been raised to pala levels of AoE tanking effectiveness, with a full set of warrior cooldowns (SI, Barkskin. frenzied regen) and DPS on par with... well, the DPS. All tanks have been given the full arsenal that previously was separated amongst the tanks.<br /><br />On top of that, I'm just a far, far better player than I was then.<br /><br />Still, I take some comfort that even if the trash isnt very exciting, the bosses are still decent. Take BRC, the beams boss is kinda fun, the Steelbender boss is a genuine challenge for the tank to do well, beauty is boring I admit (but still takes some movement), and the last boss is fun. I can't remember the bosses of HC HoS being that involved even when they were fresh. The same with HC Deadmines, there's a lot of innovation in there too for a reused instance. But I must admit, I have zero desire to chain run heroics. <br /><br />On the other hand, I never liked doing that anyway! Bring on the raids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-71173032127615046662011-01-07T14:34:37.478+00:002011-01-07T14:34:37.478+00:00As Kring points out, unless mobs do something wors...As Kring points out, unless mobs do something worse than damage, we'll always be able to outgear them and therefore, CC.<br /><br />@Anonymous: Grinding and trivial repetition tend to go hand in hand.Klepsacovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-16248047233316560522011-01-07T09:01:58.196+00:002011-01-07T09:01:58.196+00:00I've been complaining about this myself - alre...I've been complaining about this myself - already there are so many groups that feel heroics have become easy enough to drop all the CC again. yeah that's nice, but the person that has to work the most because of this, is the healer. and we don't even get asked whether we're okay with less CC being put up.<br />most players dont realize that abandoning CC in places like SFK for example, is no speed up to the run: it only means there are longer breaks in between pulls, because the healer is emptying his manabar 3 times quicker.<br /><br />*sigh*Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04473554645340972749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-69423783438884646022011-01-07T01:15:45.685+00:002011-01-07T01:15:45.685+00:00@Kring: I actually think they managed to make tras...@Kring: I actually think they managed to make trash with some pretty interesting abilities in the Cata heroics, the problem from my point of view is just that because the mobs don't hit as hard, the disruption doesn't actually matter as much. For example we did that first pull in heroic Stonecore without CC, I got feared, then stunned, then charged - but the tank was still fine after me being out of commission for several seconds. Likewise even if the tank loses aggro, a clothie can take more than a few hits these days. It makes the pull messy and does increase the risk that your healer will run oom before all the mobs are dead - but if that's the <i>only</i> risk, it's actually not that dangerous.<br /><br />@Anonymous: I did make a follow-up comment to that post, saying that it seemed like the game was out to prove me wrong right after I wrote it, as I got five upgrades in one night right after I posted. Still, wanting to be geared enough to try the entry raids doesn't equal wanting to be able to steamroll the heroic five-mans. I see no reason why one has to immediately lead to the other.<br /><br />@Adgamorix: Oh yes, I have no doubt that I'm a bit ahead of the "average group" with this experience, but if we're outgearing things this quickly than the average pug will likely feel it too in a few weeks time, and I do think that's way too early. Especially as many people were only just (re-)learning how to crowd control in the first place. If it becomes obsolete again so quickly then it's never going to stick.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-71544786841402790132011-01-07T00:10:04.528+00:002011-01-07T00:10:04.528+00:00I think CC is still required in your average group...I think CC is still required in your average group - but a lot of it will depend on the mentality of your tank/healer. Say you're a new(ish) tank and you do a run where the healer can muscle you through a bad pull or 5. In your next run, you'll assume the same thing, though maybe your healer there can't (or won't). I know I let people die all the time when they fail to pay attention. Yes, I see your HP falling, but it's more mana efficient to rez you.Adgamorixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07642665863641484225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-31575541835253259892011-01-06T23:15:47.567+00:002011-01-06T23:15:47.567+00:00A few posts ago you said the path to gearing up se...A few posts ago you said the path to gearing up seemed especially grindy, but now it seems you can just blitz heroics in 30 minutes. Is this a case of "be careful for what you wish for"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-86956076441714198482011-01-06T22:36:36.767+00:002011-01-06T22:36:36.767+00:00@Kring-- Well, after having perused the PTR for 4...@Kring-- Well, after having perused the PTR for 4.06, looks like the solution is to nerf healing.Redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-6903905387876773002011-01-06T22:33:18.250+00:002011-01-06T22:33:18.250+00:00There's a huge difference between the interest...There's a huge difference between the interesting TBC heroics and the boring ones we got for Cata. In TBC the trash mobs often had secondary effects which made it impossible to tank to much of them because you couldn't "tank" their secondary abilities.<br /><br /> - Stun with a resulting aggro loss.<br /> - Random Aggro<br /> - Random Aggro DOTs<br /> - Manaburn which immediately OOMs your healer resulting in a wipe.<br /> - Kicks and knockbacks/knockdowns<br /> - silence<br /> - disarm<br /> - multiple ranged mobs without a terrain for a LOS pull<br /><br />In Cata the trash mobs have a ton of hp and if you tank many of them it requires your healer to use inefficient heals. Hello? How boring can it get? You won't be able to bring back CC by math... Trash needs to be a challenge and threat and not just a minor inconvenience between bosses!<br /><br />Besides that... with my warlock I can't compete with tank DPS on trash on a 3 or 4 pull. Blizzard nerfed my AE spells (they did that with all DD chars) but didn't nerf the AE dmg of tanks.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-74169594208490923152011-01-06T21:39:54.815+00:002011-01-06T21:39:54.815+00:00Yeah, it's over already. No CC, chain pull, go...Yeah, it's over already. No CC, chain pull, go go go. I don't even bother drinking. We stop for caster DPS more than me, these days.<br /><br />I have mixed feelings about it. Half hour heroics are nice on raid nights, but, wow, we sure outgeared the five mans quickly (without even having to raid to do it!). I enjoyed the feeling of teamwork and group effort that CC inspired, and I doubt that is coming back, now.enlynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04113088007518211865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-60004483863068176732011-01-06T21:27:08.479+00:002011-01-06T21:27:08.479+00:00You know what that means, don't you? If Blizz...You know what that means, don't you? If Blizz really wants CC back in the game long term, they'll have to buff the Heroics or nerf the classes again.<br /><br />If it's just a fakeout on Blizz's part, then they'll start losing people to boredom before all the first set of raids are cleared. Blizz has to tread carefully on this, because if they don't do something, the asshatery in instances will only get worse.Redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.com