tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post8957085345378502575..comments2024-03-21T23:18:45.644+00:00Comments on Priest with a Cause - A World of Warcraft (Classic) blog: The Day Tier 11 DiedShintarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-39727572664222657982011-07-08T15:08:10.804+01:002011-07-08T15:08:10.804+01:00@neowolf & Shintar
Thanks for the clarificati...@neowolf & Shintar<br /><br />Thanks for the clarification on Morhaime's statements. Indeed, it's a bit of a contradiction from other things said by Blizz officials. Part of that 600k subscription drop was likely includes non-raiders, because dailies are just as boring as repeating raid content burned through too quickly.<br /><br />In regards to progressing at your own pace, I would suggest an "optional nerf". Something similar to what we saw in ICC; maybe that would appease more people. With that said, I highly suspect that most wouldn't opt for the harder content. I would also be interested to see just how many people turned off the ICC buff. Those numbers probably influenced the decision as to why the T11 nerf isn't optional. Too few people would choose to keep it relatively difficult.<br /><br />I'm also guessing that the designers feel the same way you do about PuGs in T11 content. There are other places to progress and get gear, even before hitting up T12 raid content. Other than "making peace" with the old content or achievements, there's really no driving force for raiding guilds to stick around in T11 (generally speaking, of course). <br /><br />I probably could have sumamarized all my nonsense by simply stating that the nerf is about accessability. For as many people that have burned through it quickly (or slowly, for that matter) - there are plenty of people who haven't seen it at all. This action gives the opportunity for those who didn't see it the chance to take a look without trivializing the efforts of the more advanced players (too much).<br /><br />Unfortunately, some people are going to get hosed with the changes. Blizz just has to make sure they don't hose them too badly and don't hose the majority of players. And I don't think they did this time around.Darthregishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10319251914537986903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-32703812833785856972011-07-07T06:43:57.015+01:002011-07-07T06:43:57.015+01:00I agree with the other commenters defending the ne...I agree with the other commenters defending the nerf: there was more than enough time. My guild raid only runs two nights a week, semi-casual, and didn't even start for at least a month after Cata hit (hell, my main wasn't even 85 for weeks as I was too lazy). And we still got all three main bosses down over a month ago and a couple of hard modes.<br /><br />I know this comes off as some kind of bragging, but my point is just that we're a motley, unmotivated crew and still did it. We're now in Firelands and moving on as a guild should be.<br /><br />TL;DR = there was enough time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-20641559221883368002011-07-07T02:04:14.354+01:002011-07-07T02:04:14.354+01:00@Darthregis: If you think that the nerfs are a goo...@Darthregis: If you think that the nerfs are a good thing for you and your guild, more power to you. Unfortunately I've seen more people react negatively to the changes, or at least be indifferent because they didn't care about going back to tier 11 anyway. I guess we'll all see how it works out in practice. Personally I just prefer to play the game at my own pace. Expansion resets are traumatic enough in their own way; I don't need Blizzard to give me the proverbial boot every couple of months because <i>they</i> want me to play a different part of the game.<br /><br />Neowolf already explained about the "burning through content too fast" bit of my post, but <a href="http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/10/blizzard-wow-subs-based-decreasing-looking-to-deliver-content-updates-faster/" rel="nofollow">here</a> is an article that has the relevant quote. I know that it's contradictory to other statements they've made, but there you go.<br /><br />@Andy: Sorry, I didn't want to go into more detail because long-time readers of my blog will have seen me rant about hard modes enough already. :P To me they are not really new content, as they are just the same fights with some extra bells and whistles. I've still done some of them in the past for the sake of challenge, but it's always a lot less interesting than killing actual new bosses because seeing new fights is part of the core fun of raiding for me. You can't just take that aspect out and expect it to be just as enjoyable.Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-5493964804082059582011-07-07T00:24:00.495+01:002011-07-07T00:24:00.495+01:00I'm a little confused by what you're sayin...I'm a little confused by what you're saying here: specifically, you dismiss the entire concept of hard modes as "boring" with not even a backhanded explanation why.<br /><br />Why not work on the hard modes if you're looking for new content? Those aren't nerfed. They would feel like big accomplishments I'm sure, and with some of the new 4.2 gear you probably even have a chance at success if your execution is good.Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-549373048003874642011-07-07T00:11:25.673+01:002011-07-07T00:11:25.673+01:00Darthregis: it was Morhaime who said (at the Q1 c...Darthregis: it was Morhaime who said (at the Q1 conference call) that they were going to release content more quickly because players were burning through it too fast.<br /><br />I interpret this in two ways: (1) there are players who are still burning through all the content quickly (just fewer of them), and (2) players are reaching the limit too quickly of the content they are able/willing to do.<br /><br />Basically, he was saying "they starved us of resources to make content for this expansion and it's biting us badly." I am imagining this restricted development budget was forced on Morhaime and Blizzard from Kotick or from ATVI's board, probably over his objections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-70692429548332210022011-07-06T23:41:02.108+01:002011-07-06T23:41:02.108+01:00"In fact they've been complaining about p..."In fact they've been complaining about players burning through content too quickly, so why encourage that even more?"<br /><br />They delayed Firelands because "not enough people" had completed the previous tier, so I'm not sure where you've seen these complaints about people burning through content too quickly.<br /><br />They're also not encouraging people to burn through content more quickly. They're encouraging people to move on. Everyone had a good six months to do this content while it was relevant. Now it's old news.<br /><br />Also, there are plenty of people who didn't get into the T11 raids for whatever reason. Now it's their chance to see it and not have it be a complete wipefest. On top of that, it's not always about the gear and doing dailies loses its allure quickly. My guild - we're [very] casual. We're doing our first raid since Cata this weekend with help from this nerf. We're there to see the fights, story, and to do stuff together as a guild. <br /><br />If you're seeking a challenge, it's in Firelands now. Let the rest of us play in the old content and not have to stress out over it or spend the entire night with no progress.Darthregishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10319251914537986903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-58078925764773257822011-07-06T04:09:29.634+01:002011-07-06T04:09:29.634+01:00You realize that if pugs avoid T11, Blizzard is go...You realize that if pugs avoid T11, Blizzard is going to consider the whole "let them eat nerf" philosophy a failure, and it's back to WotLK-style design (or even easier) to save the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-43594898176193551312011-07-04T21:47:34.277+01:002011-07-04T21:47:34.277+01:00@Boxer & Zinn: I just don't really buy the...@Boxer & Zinn: I just don't really buy the "we had enough time" argument, because it assumes that it's inevitable that content gets "destroyed" every couple of months, and that Blizzard has to do this in order to maintain player interest. In fact they've been complaining about players burning through content too quickly, so why encourage that even more?<br /><br />Also, I don't think that the appeal to pugs will last long, as people will realise very quickly that they can get better gear from doing Hyjal dailies and farming Firelands trash. Not to mention that I can't see anyone wanting to pug Al'Akir for the fun of it anyway. I don't think I've seen a Throne of the Four Winds pug, ever.<br /><br />(Reposted to fix typos.)Shintarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758343475446510635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-64036637235965915612011-07-04T20:56:39.795+01:002011-07-04T20:56:39.795+01:00I have to agree with Boxdog on this one, at least ...I have to agree with Boxdog on this one, at least partially. We really had plenty of time to kill the bosses, and if you haven't already, you shouldn't be sour over it. Although I was lucky enough to be in a guild this time around that managed to do most of the fights while they were still current, I remember that we had this issue back in Wrath. But I never felt like the fight got less epic to me then just because it was less difficult. In a sense it was equally difficult since the skills of my guild were lower. We had to bust as much ass to down those bosses when they were nerfed as the better guilds had to down them when they were unnerfed. But I do agree that Blizzard shouldn't have nerfed them so hard with the nerfbat, but that they should have stepped it down slowly instead. Perhaps nerfing them 10% for two weeks (or more, or less), then 15% and so on. Now the fights have gone from impossibly difficult to cake walks to many guilds, leaving them without much fun at all, as you say. Maybe they just thought it would be too much work, which is a bad excuse imo.Zinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935881612077507321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-23839745848421770092011-07-04T20:48:04.608+01:002011-07-04T20:48:04.608+01:00Hmm. That's more than a little irritating that...Hmm. That's more than a little irritating that all the comments on that post have disappeared - sorry, I didn't notice. I'll look into it on my return from holiday next week. <br /><br />As to the nerf - I agree. We did BWD up to Nef on Sunday, and it's just a bit depressing. At one point we had raiders TRYING to get themselves killed on Omnitron, and failing.Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06431748370729945514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-28579428673075153672011-07-04T05:08:58.373+01:002011-07-04T05:08:58.373+01:00I believe that the problem was that if Blizzard ha...I believe that the problem was that if Blizzard had only nerfed them mildly, say to the point where both your respective guilds (and mine in fact) could kill them, but still with some of a struggle, they would still have been un-puggable.<br /><br />I think we all had our 3-4 months to kill these bosses pre-nerf. Whilst I agree with Shintar and Anonymous that a lesser nerf could have been better, we had our chance, the PUG community (which is quite large) has had no real content but BH since Cata launch. I guess it's something for them. I was one of them once, in a scrub MC run :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4659326122793396570.post-56706924531139419612011-07-04T04:19:34.993+01:002011-07-04T04:19:34.993+01:00We had those same 2 bosses left, with 30 prior att...We had those same 2 bosses left, with 30 prior attempts on Nef and 0 on Al'akir, and our experience was very much the same as yours. I think we 3 shot them each post-nerf. Our Nef kill was so ugly it's embarrassing (a dps dead from the very start, then 1 tanked almost all of P3!)<br /><br />I didn't see your comment on the editorial, but I agree with the gist of it. My guild would have been fine with more time or some of the more annoying mechanics toned down, we didn't need the encounters neutered to the point where we didn't have anything left to chew on.<br /><br />CelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com