No, not BfA - and not really Shadowlands either. But I'm intrigued by this giant level squish that's supposed to come with the Shadowlands pre-patch and that's supposed to allow people to level (close) to the level cap in a single one of the old expansions. Plus there'll be a new starter experience too, and I'm always up for checking out one of those.
I could make a Draenei and level her through Outland, to get a refresher for how it feels in the live game before encountering it in Classic TBC (whenever we'll get that).
My husband said he'd be game for levelling a pair of alts through Wrath (not a particular favourite of mine, but an opportunity to play with him again would be worth it).
The worgen druid that I levelled in MoP never finished all the zones there - after the squish she should be level 37 or so, so I could actually level her up by completing any remaining quests.
And of course I've never played through any of the expansion content that came with WoD and after.
I'm not sure I'd actually want to do all these things - but dipping my toes in and trying a couple actually sounds interesting, and it wouldn't require any additional purchases beyond the subscription I'm already paying for Classic. Plus you know that whenever that pre-expansion patch actually drops, all the blogosphere will be playing and writing about it, and it's always fun to be part of that sort of zeitgeist.
17/07/2020
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My problem with the level squish and the leveling to max level via a single expac is that, well, those are designed for people who previously played WoW. That's great and all, but does this mean that Blizz has pretty much given up on getting new players into retail?
ReplyDeleteIf it were me, I'd basically send new players to Classic, because there's plenty of areas/questlines in the Old World that reference the way things used to be (back in the pre-Cataclysm times), and they'll make no sense to anybody who is coming in fresh.
I don't think they've given up on getting new players into retail; they just don't think that the bigger history and lore of WoW will matter a lot to most of these potentials and they're probably right about it too. A new player will be directed towards levelling up through BFA and then Shadowlands, which should present a (somewhat) coherent narrative, and that will likely be enough for most. If they are lore nerds enough to care about what came before they can read up on it somewhere later I guess... the important thing was to stop new players partially bumbling through five different expansions and losing track of what's happening.
DeleteExile's Reach. Blizzard has made a new 1 - 10 leveling experience for brand new players. They'll be put into that and then sent on to BfA for 10 to 50. It's only the experienced players that get the choice of the other expansions. (If you're new you can't even get quests in the other areas.)
DeleteThen the question is why bother with the other regions at all?
DeleteThat's always been Blizzard's Ace in the Hole: Azeroth is so big compared to every other MMO that there's simply no way that any other MMO could match it. And going back into other regions will make no sense from a story standpoint either, because all of that was done in the past. And if NPCs are referenced in Shadowlands that are from previous expacs, what then? Will people just get a "it's not important, just go kill things" response?
I now wonder if the reason why Blizz is suddenly okay with Classic is because they get to dump the "old stuff", Vanilla and the old expacs, on Classic and not bother with thinking about it any more.
I never thought I'd see the day when Black Desert Online made more sense, story-wise, than WoW.
The point is Blizzard doesn't want new players to bother with the old regions. :D It's basically Cataclysm 2.0, only with less effort involved and while still allowing players to go back to the old content if they really want to; but otherwise it's more or less being phased out.
DeleteThe size of the world hasn't really been one of WoW's USPs in a long time, considering that each expansion encourages people to spend all their time on a new continent/world.
And as for NPCs having backstories that a player might not know, that's also been a thing since forever. Never having played any of the Warcraft RTSes, I had no real clue who Arthas was at the start of Wrath, but that didn't make it impossible to have a good time.
The problem is that in the current system where you go through multiple expansions, you don't go through the entire expansion. If there are 5 expansion zones, you may do the first 2 before going to the next expansion.
DeleteI believe the goal in Shadowlands is that the player does all 5 zones in one expac and gets to max level. You can make another character and go through a different expansion.
This way the player gets to see the entire questing experience of old expansions. And making an alt is a different levelling experience.
"Azeroth is so big compared to every other MMO that there's simply no way that any other MMO could match it."
DeleteI think EverQuest's 26 expansions and over five hundred zones might have something to say about that. I can think of several other MMORPGs that must now have as much or more virtual real estate as Azeroth, too.
Bhag--
DeleteYou're right about EQ. My point has always been that, as a game world, trying to chase WoW by outdoing WoW in content was a fool's errand, because no new MMO could match it. The WoW team became so focused on endgame that the rest of the world became unimportant. I consider the Shadowlands design the culmination of that focus, because now a new player gets a short intro zone, the previous expac's zones, and then they go right to the new expac.
If Blizz is designing things this way, they should have simply killed off all of the old zones entirely and focused on only the two zones --previous expac and new-- instead of turning the older expacs into a vestigial organ.
If Blizz is designing things this way, they should have simply killed off all of the old zones entirely
DeleteDisagree, because then it really would have been Cata 2.0! At least this way the content is still there for those who want to revisit it.
I believe the intent is to have some story consistency for new players. Exile's Reach is set, lore-wise, right before BfA. You also have, good or bad, Blizzard's current questing design with a mini-dungeon (soloable) at the end of the zone. There's even an event in one of the new Covenants that retells the events of Legion and BfA for players.
DeleteI'm also sure the cost of making one new intro area instead of revamping all of the old ones as they did with Cataclysm was also an important point. As they've said, with Cataclysm they didn't know when to stop or how much things would snowball affecting other zones. This seems like their way of keeping that in check.
Perhaps it was keeping the "rework" impulse in check, but I think they simply no longer have the dev staff either. It's very telling that the expac that a lot of people spend their time online saying is one of WoW's worst (note: never played it, so I have no dog in the fight) is also the expac that new players would have to level through. Then again, maybe raiders liked it, given that's the focus Blizz puts on retail these days. I would have thought that they would have chosen Legion, but I guess given that Shadowlands follows very closely after BfA they really had no choice.
Delete@Shintar-- It's only there for returning players, not for new players. That's a pretty big difference. Blizz is effectively shrinking the game down to only the previous and current expacs (for new players) or a previous lone expac and the current expac (for returnees). How is that not Cata 2.0?
From my understanding the content is still there for new players too once they start making alts; it's just that their first character has to be levelled through Exile's Reach and BfA.
Delete@Redbeard -- The leveling content will be fine for new players. Exile's Reach should be enough to set the stage without having to deal with all the problematic story stuff BfA had pre-launch. Since they won't be dealing with the endgame systems of BfA that takes away so many problems. (It wouldn't surprise me if new players don't even get a Heart of Azeroth or deal with those systems while leveling.)
DeleteI would also say that Blizzard effectively has reduced the game to the latest *patch* for returning players. You may need to level to max, but everything you need to do endgame has been tied to the current patch, BfA being an extreme example of that with major systems resets mid-expansion. :sigh:
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. All of us here come from the viewpoint of a player who has already played WoW before, and I believe that colors our perception. We aren't coming into Azeroth blind, or having come from League, MW, FIFA, or some other gaming viewpoint.
DeleteBlizz is doing these things in an attempt to grow the playerbase, but I'm not sure it'll work. Blizz remains shackled by "the game begins at max level" mentality, and every side thing they've created to give people "things to do" devolves into "you have to do all the things to be a good raider". Not exactly what they were intending. I also believe that Blizz should pay more attention to the "you think you do but you don't" that Brack tried to turn on the Vanilla fans, but instead they should be asking themselves that. "Just who is returning, and why?" "Who is leaving, and why?" "What do people who try out the game look for, and why?"
But what I fear is that they're asking "Who are the 'whales' of WoW that we can exploit?" instead.
I think you'd mostly enjoy revisiting TBC. I say mostly because some of the quests can be pretty broken. Blizzard has let things rot since fewer people seem to level through Outlands vs Wrath. The other downside is that doing the PvP activities (Hellfire Peninsula / Zangarmarsh) aren't worth the time as many people use their 120s to flip the towers.
ReplyDeleteStill, there's a timelessness about Outlands (versus what came later) that is appealing.
Errm, that first sentence should be reworded. :/ "I've found that revisiting TBC mostly enjoyable." Mea culpa.
DeleteI dunno, I think I'd mostly enjoy revisiting TBC too. ;P
DeleteI was planing on resubbing just to do the level squish version of the old content. I fancy levelling characters through different xpacks. I also want a Vulpera. As far as I can tell, though, I won't need to buy Shadowlands for any of that so I probably won't bother.
ReplyDeleteI've been in two minds about when to resub. The huge bonus xp would usually have got me to pony up for a month at least but it seems like the worst possible time for bonus xp, right before a change to the entire levelling process that's going to put the whole thing on fast-forward anyway. I'll probably wait for the pre-expansion events now.
Yeah, I think either the pre-expansion event or the level squish will be the time to just re-sub, depending on your interests. Plus you don't have the best track record with buying expansions! ;D
Delete(I used to find the idea of someone playing the game without the latest expansion very strange. Now, not so much.)
The pre-expansion will have the level squish. An experienced speed leveler can hit 50 in under 6 hours. A casual leveler should easily do it in less than 20 hours from what I've read. Shadowlands leveling is supposed to be 60* - 70% which is the reason they are removing the xp bonus from heirloom gear.
DeleteI love playing through new starter zones too. It will get strange with the level squish, almost like playing vanilla again.
ReplyDelete